Crystal Zinn Podcast

Osteopathy, Acupuncture & Gong Journeys with Dr. Heather Bird #85

• Crystal Zinn • Season 3 • Episode 14

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 1:25:56

Welcome to the amazing world of Dr. Heather Bird. She is a dr of Osteopathic Neuromusculoskeletal Medicine. She has a diverse background in medical techniques, schools and training including Acupuncture, Chinese Medicine, D.O. school and even Veterinary Medicine specializing in avian medicine (birds).


This discussion weaves us through the allopathic and holistic medicine industry overlaps, her very unique treatment approach for healing the body mind and spirit, and how gong’s play a part in all this. I loved learning about how her brilliant medical kind, her spiritual gifts and her unique journey through a car accident, anxiety and medical school shaped her wisdom and gifts today! 
                    
www.featherandflowdo.com

Instagram @featherandflowdo




🐉🪬🩵

➡️ Listen Crystal Zinn Podcast ✨

➡️ message me for guest speaking, workshops, retreats & corporate events

➡️ Book private sessions at calendly.com/crystalzinnyoga

➡️ Follow me on instagram, TikTok, YouTube or Facebook 

➡️ Website crystalzinnyoga.com 

➡️ Breath Work, Sound Baths, Speaking, Anatomy Education, Meditation, Workshops & Yoga 

📧 Email crystalzinnyoga@gmail.com


#yoga #yogateachertrainings #gratitude #yogateachers #ytt #yogapractice #yogainspiration #meditation #yogalife 

SPEAKER_02

Welcome to the Crystal Zinn Podcast. I believe our bodies are a living map of the entire universe. All the answers reside within. Remember, you are sovereign, whole, and infinitely valuable. And the best gift we can give to the world is our own healing. Join me as we explore holistic tools, spiritual practices, and paradigms that are shifting the way people experience life, business, and relationships. I love to share education on the most recent medical research and cutting-edge technology on anatomy, neurology, trauma development, and more to give us a foundation in understanding how to align, utilize, and upregulate our physical systems. Ultimately, this podcast is a witness and support to people on their journey of remembering, an inspiration for all of us to keep going and a reminder that we are not alone. Welcome to the Crystal Zen podcast today. I hope you're doing well. I have Dr. Heather Byrd with me. Welcome, Heather. Hi, thank you. I'm so glad you're here. I will tell you later on the podcast. Stay tuned about my experience with uh Dr. Heather. It was quite uh amazing and transcending and beautiful and awesome, and I've been really excited to share it. And that sort of led us into this connection so that she could be here today and talk about all of the things, uh mostly the journey going from a medical doctor to maybe a more holistic approach to medical care. And I'm wondering how you would like to introduce yourself today.

SPEAKER_04

Well, um my name's Heather. And and I usually have people call me Heather or Dr. Dr. Byrd if I'm talking to the medical students, but for the most part, I'm I'm Heather. Yeah. My my background is is quite diverse and eclectic. Uh I took quite the journey to get to where I am today. And and so I am a doctor of osteopathic medicine, and my specialty is called osteopathic neuromusculoskeletal medicine, or onan for short.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you. Um we will also, I am sure, get into lots of your expertise. I have lots of questions about that and the studies and how you got there, um, and some just really cool stories and questions about the world that my listeners intersect with. Um so stay tuned for that. And also, my listeners know we tune in right at the beginning, and this is good for us and them. And then the best messages that we all need tend to come through. So if you're willing, and anyone who's able to do so, go ahead and join us by closing your eyes and observe the vibrations around your body and within your body. No need to change anything. Everything's welcome here, everything has a message. Notice what you're feeling, and then somatically explore those feelings as you observe the breath. Is it restrictive, tight, high, low, to the left or right? Does it have a color or texture? And in your mind's eye, just repeat, you are welcome here. I see you. And if any feelings in your body today have a message for you, open yourself up to that. What do I need to know right now? And then a couple more seconds, you can stay with that. You can let my voice trail off, or you can observe what you hear. Maybe a little farther away, a couple feet, a couple miles, a couple countries. Whatever you notice, it will be in silence for ten seconds, which I know is awkward on a podcast. Trust that my voice will come back. And then, as slowly as feels intuitive to you today, start to ascend, maybe blink the eyes open, rub your fingers or toes. And just know that the only thing we can do ever is our best. We can only ever be present and human. And so, no pressure here today. We're gonna explore some things that are exciting to me and Heather, and if they resonate with you, then be with us. You're really gonna like this one. Thank you for doing that with us. This big burning question I've had is how have you learned to assimilate the spiritual and the intuitive with the like logistical and medical background when you work?

SPEAKER_04

Wow. I know. That is that is a phenomenal question. It's a big one because this is this is the span of my training, you know. This is uh where I've been and where I am now and where I'm going. Yeah. That encompasses just about everything.

SPEAKER_02

So maybe that maybe that question will arc our whole podcast from beginning to end. Yes. That's sort of the theme and the gift that I wanted to pull out because I have you here. I have someone who in depth knows it all. How do we sit with the practical and the knowledge and then and also leave space for the intuitive? And I watch you weave that in the session you did for me. Um so maybe, maybe if the listeners have that in mind and you have that in mind, that's my big heartburning question. If it feels good to start with how you actually maybe run a session when somebody comes to you and says, I have this physical pain or this ailment, maybe you could run us through how do you just begin to address things from A to Z? Okay. Yeah, good question.

SPEAKER_04

So so I'm trained in both. Osteopathic manipulative uh so the T gets tricky or M. I could say I perform OMM or OMT. So osteopathic manipulative treatment, osteopathic manipulative medicine. These two terms get thrown around a lot and people get confused on on what that is. Um, but uh we'll talk about that. So I do that in my sessions. In addition, I am also trained in medical acupuncture. I don't I don't think that there is a difference. There's just different terms for it. And there are official terms listed with with my my specialty boards. And um but but to the the general population, I don't think it actually matters that much. So so I I perform OMT or OMM. Same thing.

SPEAKER_02

Um but and that's hands-on adjustments.

SPEAKER_04

I was trained in in general medicine, and this was one of the specialties that was available to me after finishing my intern year in residency, which is the stuff that that TV shows are made of. You know, Scrubs is all about the interns, if you've ever seen that show, great show, uh, very accurate in the portrayal of what that general medicine intern year looks like. Um and uh but as an osteopathic student, all of all of the DO students learn this manual component in the training. It's about 300 hours worth of the first two years of the curriculum. And so all DOs have this skill set. Uh then you go into your third and fourth year of training in medical school, and and that looks very much like an apprenticeship. You are you are going through your rotations in the specialties. So there is the pediatric specialty or your or family medicine specialty, and you spend anywhere, depending on your school's curriculum, two to six weeks in each of these rotation locations. Um and the neuromusculoskeletal medicine rotation uh gets handled differently by different schools, but there is a rotation component for the DO student to come and participate. And you met one of the medical students from ATSU in Missouri. She was rotating with me when you came to see me. Uh and uh and I think it's an important part of the curriculum because it helps it helps with the physical exam skill set. I've seen uh surgeons, gener general surgeons and an orthopedic surgeon when I was on rotation who are DOs use their hands to assess their patients in a way that that was quite special. Um that's kind of what it what that part is. I also did um what would be considered a f uh maybe a fellowship um and training in additional training in medical acupuncture. And the acupuncture that I do has it it is uh it is called French energetics, and so it is from a French tradition or a an adaptation of a Western adaptation of the traditional Chinese medicine model. So it fits the Western uh medical system uh a little bit easier than, say, the TCM model does.

SPEAKER_02

Interesting. So for you personally, do you find that having your hands on your clients and doing those assessments gives you more feedback, like you know what's coming through more, or do you just fill it with information or spiritual intuition?

SPEAKER_04

So my process, which I I um I got a little off track, which I I tend to do, the process is such that I need I guess I don't need it, but I do I do uh appreciate to have more information than not. And so people will technically I don't know, usually fill out an intake form before they come and see me. And all of my all of my practice is done, um, all of my the business aspect of my practice is done online. And so people can fill out their forms, do their scheduling and all of that before they ever see me, which is great. Uh because I'm a one-man show these days. I have I have uh a little specialty boutique clinic, and and and so it's nice to have the information collected before before people arrive, and so I can use the whole time for the appointment. So I will look through the forms that they send me. One of the intake forms that they have, they have to fill out uh biopsychosocial type questions where I'm asking them questions to assess if um if they have more of, say, I don't know, a fire type or a water type. And this is going back to the acupuncture component of what I do because it's going to inform how I place my needles to to push the energy through the circuits.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, fascinating. So it's not like it's not Ayurvedic. It's a it's the Chinese medicine system, the Chinese medical accuracy system. Based off that, yeah. Based off that. And that would totally inform, depending on what type of person you are, where the needles go.

SPEAKER_04

It is one of one of the pieces, one of the pieces, because the physical exam piece also is important. Uh I typically will do a pulse reading. There are 12 pulse placements on on the wrist, on between the two wrists, uh both deep and shallow, and they each represent a meridian, a energetic meridian line where I might place needles at acupuncture points. And then there is a pull or a tongue reading where the tongue will also give me some more clues about the system and how I'm gonna do my needles.

SPEAKER_02

I know I'm so fascinated on this one small beginning part of like your method. I know that. And have you always felt like you have had gifts or feedback with hands-on manipulation with people, you know?

SPEAKER_04

So, Crystal, I I had no idea. I had no idea what OMT really was until I started medical school.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and and I didn't know my hands could do the things that they do now. I I didn't realize this. I went to DO school thinking it was all about the medicine. I like, I like the whole person approach that the DO school touts. Um they they just go through the systems a little bit differently, I think, than my allopathic or MD counterparts do. We take all we do take the same board exams, we do the same types of rotations. In fact, I I trained with many MDs during during my years through medical school. Um but but this special component of learning how to use your hands is is where I I figured out, whoa, whoa, the hands do something that is so so incredibly cool and different.

SPEAKER_02

Um Yeah, and I'm asking, because you're like we're rarely ever touched or physically manipulated in the Western medical system, even when you get deep into treatment. It's very cold and very sterile. I think like even I've had some major medical things, and if you're asking me right now, the most I remember is like getting my lymph nodes palpitated or maybe my stomach once or twice. And so that's why I'm really loving hearing your opinion and your talents in this area and and your opinion about how important a role this plays.

SPEAKER_04

So important.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yes. Um Yeah. Right now there's there is kind of a controversy within the medical community about should we even be doing physical exams? And I'm coming from the standpoint of how do you not do a physical exam? How do you not touch your patients? Because because I have to to be able to know what's going on fully. The the hands tell me so much more than than the mouth usually does. It's there's there's an honesty to touching your patients. And and so they don't always have to tell me everything with their mouth and mind that that their fascia and and touch can tell me.

SPEAKER_02

That's beautiful. And I know when that happens for me, especially in your session, when that happened for me, sort of like you said, this relief and this authenticity kind of came through. Things that I probably couldn't have written on the intake form or told you. This emotion came through when you laid your hands on me, that just felt like I am being seen. Yes. Yes in ways I don't even know how to communicate. And that is relieving. Like I'm tearing up, remembering that feeling.

SPEAKER_04

Oh my goodness. Yeah, yeah. It's special, it's really special.

SPEAKER_02

So it sounds like based on that information, and a lot of uh us practitioners who only use those methods really because we're not certified or qualified in other methods, where we do Reiki or things like that that lead with, you know, you're gonna be touched and consent and all these things. Um that is a fascinating place to begin and then continue on with all of your medical knowledge and things. And so once you're informed, what happens at that point?

SPEAKER_01

Well, okay.

SPEAKER_02

Is it like the acupuncture? You're like, oh, now I know how to move energy, or is it balancing? I guess I'm curious because as the recipient, it, you know, there was a place where I was wanting to pay attention because I was so curious to learn. But there was a bigger part of me that just surrendered and was like, I'm not sure what she's doing now.

SPEAKER_03

I just sent her a warrant.

SPEAKER_04

Well, well, okay, so the process of learning to do to do what I do, it it starts out very standardized. There is an algorithm to to learning how to do this because we have to teach our medical students. And so this is this is also part of what uh the the harder part of learning it is in the initial two years when we're in lab, we are memorizing, you know, stand here, put your hand here, um, and then push for 90 seconds here. You know, it's it's very standardized because these things are tested on national board exams, and it had to be standardized for research purposes to have some kind of um to bring validity to what we were what we do. Initially, so the DO profession is is uh it started in the late 1800s, A.T. Still was the founder, and he worked from a very intuitive place. And the initial or the the masters of osteopathy, as I like to think of them, the uh of the first class of of DO schools, they nobody really knew what they were doing. They didn't have the research rigor that they have now, and it you know, it just wasn't um like it is now. And so there wasn't an algorithm, there weren't standards, it was it was very much fundamental, kind of it sounds like and then and then well AT still died. Uh the osteopathic medical schools were were new and still up and coming, and uh and pharmaceuticals started to become uh a thing in the medical system. And so uh so a lot of schools that weren't osteopathic schools shut down because they couldn't stand up to the rigors of the research uh that was required. And and there's a lot of controversy around this, around this topic. But in order for osteopathic medicine to stay in the mainstream, the maneuvers that were being used, the manual maneuvers, had to be standardized and and be validated by research. And so both the blessing and a curse, it it does it does make it valid in a way. You know, it does work. We we are able to show time and again that if we do standardized maneuvers, that that the manual manipulation is helpful for for helping our patients heal.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and that makes sense in every in every art form, right? We need some sort of validity and we need, like you said, and also for um quality of practice, right? Yeah. Like we need to know that the students you're training uh can perform this at that level and aren't just gonna go off and do who knows what that you never taught them and then claim that it's that practice, right? We need a standard. I agree. I agree. It's a fine-line balance between that, which sounds like you've been navigating your entire medical career.

SPEAKER_04

I bring this up because my my practice might looks very it can look very esoteric to people and and like it is something maybe I'm just making up. But I can also back up everything I do with with the science of osteopathic medicine, and and acupuncture has some really good literature behind it as well. I can back up what I do.

SPEAKER_02

It sounds like we are still in a space where we need that bridge. Yes. Because people still trust that and need that for the buy-in as well. And I was talking to you about that in your clinic where I was like, wow, how did you make this jump to completely leave the insurance model and all those things? Are we ready for it? Is that scary? Because even the people who are working in a more esoteric space and getting results, if they're not backed like you are, are still having some struggle with buy in. Like, what's your opinion on that? Do you think we're ready for that?

SPEAKER_00

Or do you still feel like I have to defend this first?

SPEAKER_04

And then as long as the the greater public or general public is still consenting to the insurance model being a part of that. And you know, the the Western model that we live within, I have to maintain my my license, my medical license in such a way, and and it's a very regulated state that I am in. But you know, it's it's a nice it's a nice balance that once once you have been in practice for a while, and I have literally treated thousands of people, documented thousands of people being treated with my hands. Um there is this intuitive knowing that comes with that. And uh and you see it with with in within all of the specialties, you know, uh the older general surgeons who just they just know what to do when something goes wrong, you know, and they direct the room in a way that that is just done with ease. It's not it's not because they are pulling from from research things or whatever. It's all there, it's been there for a long time, and they don't have to go read up on on all the things to know what to do in that one situation because they've been there and they know it and it just happens intuitively. Almost looks like magic, even in the presence of a surgeon. It's the same thing in in my clinic, even though I like to decorate my clinic in crystals and you know, and burn a candle off on the side. You know, I uh I can maneuver in such a way and move my hands in such a way when when I recognize that something is needed, I know where to show up and and how to do that because I have the experience behind it and and because I know how to listen to the tissues of the body to tell me what to do. What was the question? I totally missed the question.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I love what you're saying. Whatever it was that I asked or didn't ask well, you answered it because it sounds like what you're saying is whether the world's ready for it or not, like anything else, what I'm hearing is this change comes in and through us, not from something outside of us, but it comes out from us, meaning when someone is experienced and ready and confident and embodied and has wisdom in the practices, that is felt regardless of literature or medical backing or licensure, whatever it is. Once you're in the presence of somebody like yourself or an old surgeon, I definitely felt that in your office, and they start working and that embodied wisdom, those questions just kind of fall off the table because you know you're being taken care of, and almost that visceral somatic, like embodied feeling, gives you more safety and confidence than reading a million things online before you're willing to step into this place. And at least I know for me, that's how I guide myself intuitively, and I think that's how we normally teach people. At least I know I teach my children. How does this feel? What does your intuition say, right? So once you're in the presence of somebody, it sounds like you're saying the credibility can be felt at that point, and that's how we move forward with it. And until enough practitioners reach the place you've reached, you know, we're probably still gonna have this model. But it sounds like the change, the driving factor is coming from us and through us, our confidence, our credibility, our embodiment, as opposed to the I think the way I asked the question was is the world ready for this? And how can we move into this if the world isn't letting us? Which I think was just deconstructed in your answer because now my perspective has shifted, right? It's not about if the world's ready, it's about if we're ready. Yes. And we're showing up like that.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, that's actually a really good point because my treatments vary depending on who I'm seeing. Uh, you know, I I used to see a lot of uh older farmers, old farm gentlemen in Missouri, where I did a lot of my training, and I was also an attending there for a while. And my approach with them is is very different than, say, my approach with you, Crystal.

SPEAKER_05

You know? I can see that.

SPEAKER_04

Because because they have a different expectation of who I am. And I need to show up for my patient in a way that they need me to show up for them. Um yes, I still have have all of the skills and the intuition in the moment, but but I can change my practice from a more indirect approach where where it's gentle and quiet and to uh to be very direct and high man high velocity maneuvers and um talking very loud to my my older patients who don't have the hearing aids, you know. And it's a very, you know, my colleagues could hear me down the hallway, just all right, hi Mr. Johnson, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_00

You know, and we're gonna put your shoulder back in place.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, yes, and and that was helpful for them. And it was the way I read the room, it was the way I read the tissues and what what the underlying uh subconscious feeling was to approach it in that way. It's nice to have so many different experiences across so many different specialties uh in my medical training so that um so that I can be versatile in my practice, right? I can I can change it up for for whatever whatever my patient needs.

SPEAKER_02

That just makes so much sense to me. And I love that you said that. Like, why is that not common sense? And speaking of the more gentler approaches, then I'm new to acupuncture. I think I told you I had it done with my last baby eight years ago a couple times. I've never really felt like I was fully educated on it, and I know it's really vast and so ancient. And I wonder if there's a a simple-ish way you could explain it to us. I've never had an acupuncturist on my podcast before either.

SPEAKER_05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

And so is or is there a simple way you could explain how that's moving the energy and the benefits there?

SPEAKER_05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Also, just caveat to my listeners. I felt something I've never felt when you did the heart spread on me uh with the acupuncture that time, like where I was in space and time, my body moving, and subsequently, the three or four weeks since after that, I felt physical things in my heart space. Amazing. Expanding, changing. And every time it happened, I'm just I'm just gonna cry to you on your on this podcast, and then you're just gonna be the doctor, okay?

SPEAKER_03

You just explained the thing to me.

SPEAKER_02

But but I wanted to preface it with this that everyone listens to you very carefully because that was significant. And I was pretty skeptical about how significant that was, and I want to know why. And you performed something, and that is why these changes are happening. And it was like my body knew that. It wasn't just like, oh, I ate something weird today or whatever. Like, there were moments where like I felt more emotion, different ideas, expansion, physical thing. I knew I knew it was all safe and okay and good. It just felt expanding is the best word to describe it. I could feel more, I could do more, I could sense more. Whatever like happened in that session is responsible for this change in me. Yes.

SPEAKER_04

I like to refer to it as the inner healer. Okay and and your inner healer uh or your inner physician uh consulted my inner physician for a plan on on going forward.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

Because really, really, I I don't want to do things to people. Yeah. I would like for their inner healer to do the things for for them. Um I'm just helping activate that that process in a way that could be the most helpful for them. Uh so uh uh so acupuncture, what is it? Right? So the the energy you're talking about, it's called different things in different traditions. In in Chinese medicine, they refer to it as qi or it could be called prana, or the nodis in yoga, right? Energy flows. And uh and so you have you have these lines of uh life force energy that are circulating around uh around your body. Um and uh they tend to have different themes associated with them. And you might have heard of of say the heart meridian. It gets its energy from the heart organ and the the different organs that are associated with the meridians, that's that's what the meridians are named after, because that's where the the qi is is mostly coming from or stored there.

SPEAKER_02

Um and then traveling through those lines. So that's why you can do something on my wrist, but it's for the heart.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

And so you have you have these lines of energy. Um yin and yang is a big uh big topic within the acupuncture. Uh yin being the feminine, the more feminine energy, and yang being, or ying, as some people say, uh the more masculine energy. Yin is found more on the front or the yin side of the body, more towards the middle. It's talking uh about directionality there. And yang is found on the back side of the body, or more on the outside. You have the sun shining down upon your back, coming down from the top and travels to the bottom. So the masculine energy flow is considered to go down the back, and so your more young meridians are found accordingly. And then your yin or more feminine energy comes from the earth and moves up the front of you and up to the top.

SPEAKER_02

Cool. I've never heard the direction before. I've heard front versus back in versus out, but that that was beautiful. So that would inform there's the certain spreads or arrangements of treatment or options with acupuncture. Right.

SPEAKER_04

So you want to find a balance between the two, equanimity between the masculine and feminine with the energies. And so if you are expressing more of a dry and hot type of uh situation, then you you need to bring some more uh that that's considered a very young presentation, the hot, dry, uh the redness that comes with that, um, inflammation, anger. This is this is very much of a a masculine energy or this need to be very productive, overly productive sometimes, um organized as compared to the yen or more feminine energy, which uh which is more dark, it's coming from the earth. It's it's uh there's a a wet to it. Um if you have excessive, uh if you have excessive yin, then you have swelling, right? Um so you want to you want to balance between the two for uh well-being. So balance.

SPEAKER_02

So is that the goal? What's the primary goal of acupuncture?

SPEAKER_04

That that is always my goal. I'm looking for balance. And and the same with OMT. Why they work so well together is because both help me find balance within the body. And I I have a focus on the autonomics, the autonomic nervous system, um, because both tend to uh to have dramatic effects on that. And and if you can balance the autonomics or in in other words, modulate it, uh then I think you find more peace within your body and you move better and feel better and and you show up in the world in a way that I think most people would like to show up. Um but and we need both. We need we need both the the fight or flight, the sympathetic drive to get us out of bed in the morning and get us moving and and doing the things that we want to do. And we also need the yen or the parasympathetic rest and digest uh side as well of the autonomic system to come in and help us recover from from all the things we we did and and to to be gentle with ourselves.

SPEAKER_02

I'm glad you said that because when you were listing off the qualities, it's easy to feel like, whoa, too much of that, get rid of it, too much of that, get rid of it. But it sounds like what you're saying is no, bring it into balance. Yes. And it also made me think of all of the ailments and body systems and things that we have going on. I wonder if you'd be willing to rattle off just maybe like the most common 10 or 15 things that you end up treating. Like, is it is it like sprayed muscles, perimenopause, stress, anxiety, depression? Like what are these, what are these big ticket items that we're like, this is what I see all the time, and bringing it back into balance is the answer.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, really good question. Um I I'm considered primary care.

SPEAKER_05

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

And so I I see everyone that a family medicine doctor would see. Okay. From from n neonates. I I don't do acupuncture on on a neonatal. Oh, okay. Um, because their meridians are not fully formed until about age seven, eight, somewhere in there. Oh. Um so I don't I I don't I don't do um very young pediatric uh needling. I might use pressure points, and that can be helpful. Uh accu acupressure is a very helpful thing that I can send my patients home with and something that they can do on themselves.

SPEAKER_02

So children that come in, what do they come in primarily for?

SPEAKER_04

So children. I I I know I'm getting off topic. No, it's okay. We're gonna tell you where I've been. Okay. I used to have a really lovely consult service in in a hospital where I would get I would get consults to go see newborn babies for OMT. Um if they had problems with latch and suck or because their their tongue wasn't moving well, um, instead of having the frenulum snipped, you know, so the tongue could move, I would just help with with adjusting the placement of the mouth so that they didn't need their tongue snipped. In most cases. Not always, but but definitely um definitely helpful. Uh or or for overriding sutures of of the head, you know, if they have a misshapen head, which a lot of a lot of babies do, you know, when they're first born. So I go in and I help, I help with the rounding of that or to it speed up that's a good thing. Yes. And there is there is quite a bit of literature out there to compare helmet versus OMT, and they find it to be comparable. Yeah, you just don't have to deal with the helmet.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Cool. Oh my word, I love that. Okay. So primarily your patients come in for what? And the reason why I'm asking you this is because in my head, I'm like thinking of things I have, other people have, and the question is like, wow, is this an unexplored avenue for this list?

SPEAKER_04

Yes. Okay. People for um psychiatric conditions, mental health. Um, I'm also seeing people for for wellness. So if people want to, you know, they they're doing great, but they also want to do better at their sports, you know, or who knows what it is. We all have things that we want to work on, and it seems like like acupuncture and OMT can help people improve their game in that way. I see a lot of athletes. Um, my husband is a professional BMX bike rider and and ramp builder. He he builds these amazing ramps, and and athletes from all over the world come to come to Utah and and inevitably end up seeing me at some point, too.

SPEAKER_02

That's cool. That sounds like job security right there. I mean people flying off giant ramps on their bikes, they're gonna need you.

SPEAKER_04

That's yes. Yep. So musculoskeletal complaints is definitely something people come see me for. It's in the name of my specialty. Um I see people for hormone, hormone therapy. So I have things I can do for perimenopausal type of symptoms to help with that.

SPEAKER_02

Um is acupuncture a good solution for balancing hormones?

SPEAKER_04

Absolutely. Yeah, I think I think it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It feels huge right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I do I uh let's see.

SPEAKER_02

What about allergies?

SPEAKER_04

Yes. Yeah, acupuncture for allergies is really nice, even with OMT. So I will do I like to manipulate with my hands first before I put the the needles in. I just find that I get a more robust response if if I do both. Um and I think in some traditions and TCM, they learn a form of massage. Uh I don't know a lot about that, but uh but they do. And and it seems to help with it works in conjunction with the needles. Um so with allergies, I'm approaching it with my hands first, thinking I'm gonna open up the lymphatic pathways. I'm gonna make sure that the the head, the bones of the cranium are well aligned and so everything can drain well. I'm thinking about drainage and and then um with the needles, I'm thinking about histamine and how that might play in the role of the balance with the hormones and messaging and things like that. So, and there are specific named points, studied points that you can use for allergies.

SPEAKER_02

Because it's an overreactive histamine point, right? Yeah. Like a message. And maybe this is where we can then you can come back to this side too, but delve into like the really esoteric kind of questions I have for you, which is like once you get all these medical signals and plan, and you're like, this is what we obviously have to do somatically and medically for this, what percentage of the time is that actually being informed from ancestral history, epigenetics, a trauma, a story, like someone's spiritual being, and how do you tend to that? Yes.

SPEAKER_04

So, Crystal, you have to know that I see everything as energy. Everything is, right? Even this wood behind us, it just vibrates. So if we think about it at the subatomic level, it is vibrating at a much slower rate at you know, the atoms. But there is a vibration there. And if we were as tiny as an atom, it would look like space to us, and we could just move through it. And so every tissue is vibrating at a different at a different rate. Um where am I going with that? Uh okay. So I want I I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Tell me all the things all the things.

SPEAKER_04

Um to bring in the spiritual component of it, is that is that kind of where we're going with that?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, is there a part in your session where the you then tend to more underlying spiritual causes?

SPEAKER_04

My process is such that that I'm I'm reading about somebody before I meet them, and I'm thinking about them. And then I meet them in person, and I and I'm I am an investigator. I'm putting together all the clues, you know, and they come to me usually with a problem, and and I'm I'm wanting to help them with that problem and to figure out, you know, what is the driver of of their concern. Uh emotion typically. Is it is an energy. It is an energy. Thoughts are things. Everything that has existed in this world has been a thought form first. And that would include the problem that they are describing to me. And so the process is such that I come in at a very physical, body-based uh level when I first approach my patient. And and I and I usually start at the feet in my physical exam because it is the rooted part of the body. It is more earth-based, I guess you could say. It's very physical in form. And as I work my way up or to the sip most superior part, the head, the crown, um, the practice starts to look a lot more esoteric as as my awareness rises to that point of my my participant, my patient.

SPEAKER_02

So do you ever um say things to them in that regard? Or is it more like energy working, craniosacral, like somatic unwinding at that point? Like and your patient may or may not know that that part is being addressed underneath, or would you tell them?

SPEAKER_04

If I if I uh it depends on the person. I don't I don't always want to make suggestions on on things because I want people to have their own experience of it. And okay. So when I first am standing at the feet, I'll put my hands on people's ankles. And this is this is really weird, and I'm gonna ask you to open your mind here. Um and I close my eyes and I see kind of a ghosted image of the person under my hands. And I'm not sure if this happens to everybody. My colleagues have have said this is not something that they always experience, but some of them have. Um and when I close my eyes, I see I see different uh ghosted body parts doing things in in this image that I get. And of course my hands are kind of telling me what what the tissues are doing. And then I will I will trust that that what I am interpreting or seeing is real, and then I will do what what the body has shown me. I always work from a place of how may I be of service, and so I hold this thought form in my head. How may I be of service at this time? And I usually say the person's name in my head, and and then the the person or the energy will show me what to do. And that is a more esoteric component of my practice, more intuitive part that came later after touching so many people and noticing that this was a thing for me, and and also noticing that it was quite helpful for the patients that I encountered. That if I did what my intuition told me to do, and I followed that and trusted that, leaned into it, people had better outcomes instead of me following an algorithm of now put your hand here, push here for 90 seconds. It was it was far more effective if if I did what their inner healer asked me to do.

SPEAKER_02

Wow. That really like exemplifies and expands that understanding. So to circle back, when you did that to me, did my inner healer, a different part of me, my body part, my heart, show you something and that made you decide to do or asked you to do the heart spread and that work on the heart. Is that what was happening?

SPEAKER_04

Yes. Wow. Yes. And and you can you can ask my medical student. My I well, I well, I go through all of all of the different regions of the body because I have a whole person approach.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um, everybody's treatment looks very different because I'm doing what what is being asked of me to do and to show up in service to whatever that is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But if we're not leaning into our very specific gifts and talents and karma in this world, then why are we even practicing, you know? So I'm so glad that you shared that because that's special and that's something that makes me understand what's going on, makes me desire that, and also just feel so amazed at that process and grateful, like gratitude for your gift. Thank you. That you're willing to step into it and share it and be like, this is what's happening.

SPEAKER_03

I'm trusting it.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, yes. It's it's it's kind of out there when I describe this to my allopathic colleagues, you know. Um, but but once somebody's been treated by me, they they understand. It it's sometimes hard to describe what I do because because I am layering the modalities that I've learned in such a way that that can be confusing to say medical students who are learning each modality individually. So I'm layering them. I'm combining, say, muscle energy technique with myofascial release, and in in conjunction with doing what the ghosted image is showing me, showing me where the problem is.

SPEAKER_02

That's cool. Well, it's not weird to my flavor of practice and my listeners, because we are taught by like William Lee Rand to do that exact thing. And oftentimes people feel bad if they cannot, because it's not an everybody talent. Or if you're doing something in a distance setting, even you are asked to try to picture that image. And if someone can't, they're asked to use like a teddy bear model to scan in that way. Uh, and it's not easy, and I don't think everyone can do those things. So it's funny coming from the allopathic lens and being like, wow, from this point, I feel like I'm really far. But that's just two points in a data set. I mean, add a thousand points in your data set from that to the other stuff, and you're just probably right in the middle, right? That statistic would be not so extreme that you're, you know what I'm saying? It feels more in the middle with a bigger data set. So I just want to provide that perspective. I know a lot of my listeners are energy practitioners and things like things like that. So they come from the other side where they're probably like, wow, look how cool that she can layer on some of these research-based standardized practices, which we don't have. And that's scary and out there.

SPEAKER_04

So well, I and I have looked into Reiki uh a lot actually lately. And and I I bought some books on the research behind Reiki, and there there actually is some some good data out there.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, there is. It's not nothing, but it's still I mean, I feel like you could talk to uh the medical professionals in my family in a way that they would listen better still than to me.

SPEAKER_04

You're closer to that than it's just it's meeting people where they are for sure.

SPEAKER_02

Um I do have a question that a listener asked me to ask you in it fits in in this realm, which is could you tell us about sound, um, music, sound? And I love because you already mentioned that everything's a vibration, and how and why you incorporate that into your practice. Okay.

SPEAKER_04

Yes. So I also I also I I love the gong. I guess that's what they were mentioning.

SPEAKER_02

They're like, I need to know what's going on. Because I've experienced so much magic in her gong baths, and I was like, for you, I will do this.

SPEAKER_01

We all need to know.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, so I was first introduced to uh vibration, you could say, um by reading from one of one of the master's books. Uh so Dr. Fulford, he he developed, he developed what's called the Fulford, um it's a it's I don't want to call it a vibrator, but it is. It's a it's a vibrating machine. And and we actually teach the medical students about about these the Fulford percussor.

SPEAKER_02

Is it like the plates that you stand on, like at those fit, I mean I was just at FitCon. You go to like some really intense gym and they have those plates you stand on.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, uh technically, yes. It's uh it's a little different because it's more focused and you're you're putting it on bony contacts to create vibration.

SPEAKER_00

Oh okay.

SPEAKER_04

And vibration can can change the body. It can. So you can remember I told you every every organ has a different vibrational tone to it. And if the vibration is off, it it can cause a disease state. And so if you can if you can bring the organ tissue back into vibration to match its its healthy state, then it will be returned to health. And in my mind, oh yeah, it's that easy, except you have to know how to do that, right?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Wow. And what does the gong do?

SPEAKER_04

So the gong vibrates. Okay, so whoa.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, you have one behind you. I know a little bit about it. I'm just asking the question. Because you know more.

SPEAKER_04

I think I think that um, you know, meditation. Let's talk about meditation first and the brain waves, the brain waves that are happening during meditation and how healing meditation can be for it's healing because it puts you in a state of recovery. Your parasympathetic drive come comes up. That's one of the reasons, anyway, that I think that it's so healing. Um but but when you are put into a state, you're you're so you and I talking to each other, we're in a beta, in a beta wave right now, right? We are alert, we are awake, we are thinking and processing. But when as we fall asleep, we go through the brain changes waves and and you you go into REM and then you are replaying the day, and it's it helps you to remember and learn. And so we're we're doing these things in our sleep. Um at the theta wave, uh you can journey, you can go places.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's the one I've been told you want in like Yoga Nidra, and the one you're generally in in a good meditation that provides most of these benefits. Is that true?

SPEAKER_04

Right. It is true. And well, alpha state is also it depends on what you're looking for in your meditation, because the alpha state is where most of us are in uh at least the initial stages of going from beta into more of a deeper state before you start to journey. You're in the alpha state where you're doing, you know, your body scans and relaxing into the parasympathetic. The gong tends to vibrate at depending on what kind of gong it is, but it can put you into the theta state because it it will entrain the brain waves. And that entrainment will get you there much faster. And and you've probably heard of gong journeys. Yes. Yes, people actually go places with their consciousness during during these experiences and learn a lot about themselves in the process, and this can be quite healing on on a generational level. So if you have ancestral trauma, this is this is the belief behind that. And and I don't know how how much research is behind that, but but that's that's my approach on it. In addition, people are in a state of recovery too. And so they are they are open to restoration of the body during during the experience of receiving the sound. It's just another modality that that I have, another tool that I have to to to be of service.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Because it sounds like primarily the sound, the vibrational benefit and the gong, its benefit, I guess, primarily lies in getting you in theta brain waves and getting the body in a state where it can heal itself. Yes. Right? Once again.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, the inner healer comes into play again.

SPEAKER_02

You're just setting the atmosphere that's conducive for that.

SPEAKER_04

And you can play it in such a way that it can be relaxing, but it can also be confronting.

SPEAKER_02

That's what I was gonna ask you because when I first started listening to gongs, it was really irritating.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

And now I love it. So I was wondering why that happens to some people. Is there a way to mitigate that, or is that just part of the journey?

SPEAKER_04

So I actually think it's important. And and this tends to be a controversial subject as well, because people are like, whoa, I'm being traumatized by the gong, you know, or whatever. Um but but I think that it strengthens the nervous system ultimately. If you've ever done kundalini yoga, and uh maybe in the very first parts of it, there are some more extreme kriya that you can do that will make you feel quite sick, like literally vomiting or nauseous, and this has happened, this has happened to me, at least in in my my experience of kundalini. And I think it's the same thing with the gong being confronting, because because I think if your nervous system really uh is is in a state of uh, you know, uh it is maybe been through a lot of trauma that hasn't been processed and and you're experiencing a lot of symptoms that um come with uh dysautonomia or dysregulation of your nervous system, that the loudness of the gong could feel very confronting. But to someone who has uh a nervous system that is more intact and robust, um it could be really elevating and make them feel like they are ascending.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Right?

SPEAKER_02

What would be the approach for someone who wants to do that, but they're still having some inflammatory response to it?

SPEAKER_04

Well, I love kundalini.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

It's something that I regularly suggest to my patients as an assignment to go home with. There are some free apps that I'll suggest to them and and to go home and to ease them in through kundalini to help to help the nervous system become more robust. Putting them right into a gong bath that's very confronting is maybe a little too much for them. But sometimes if I add acupuncture needles into the experience, it can really it can really help with the modulation of the nervous system, balancing the autonomics, and so that they can actually be a part of of the gong session in a way that they might not otherwise be able to. And so I do offer acupuncture in in my in my sound baths.

SPEAKER_01

I didn't know that, and my whole body just went, what? You can do acupuncture and be in a gong experience. Wow.

SPEAKER_04

The acupuncture that I do for the gong experience is not as it's it's usually not as specialized for the person. It's it's more of uh, it's I'm usually doing acupuncture with the intent of helping the nervous system stay balanced. And and so it is a uniform uh spread for everybody, a uniform protocol that I'm using for everybody in the room.

SPEAKER_02

Wow, that's really cool.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

I just my whole body is like processing, wow, what a service. And how amazing, especially when you mentioned primarily there's a lot of psychosomatic patients, like and things like that, anxiety, depression, things going on that come to you. It just seems like this way of putting the modalities together is like it's just phenomenal. Like it would just be so efficient and targeted for things that I feel like are the most undertreated and misunderstood, and quite honestly, probably the biggest struggle of our culture right now in this day and age. Like, you know, what are other people's options? Repression, pharmaceuticals, I don't know. Like it's it's a difficult thing to treat. And I'm not speaking about it just in general, personal experience. We all have someone we know who's struggling with these things, and I have multiple in my life children, spouses, you know, family of origin. Like everyone's dealing with these things and has really not a lot of options of how to go gently treating the nervous system without a lot of lot prolonged, like negative side effects. And so that's sort of where my brain went was when you talked about the sound, it sort of felt like this culmination of your process, right? Where it was like this journey and like a supplemental, supportive, like what's that word, maintenance? Yes, right of being and just staying healthy. So whether you're in dire need or not, a lot of the things you mentioned just sound like no-brainers. Like, why, of course, we should be approaching life this way. If we were taking care of ourselves, we would be in your hands probably quite often. Or at least asking the questions, or you know, seeking those things out. So it's really beautiful. I was wondering how you take care of yourself doing all of this service and being a profession where you're treating other people, which is always a really big question.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's a really big question. And I've I've I've been the patient, you know, so I have I've I've been through I've been through so much of what what my patients come to see me with in regards to the autonomics being dysregulated. And and so I can I I find that I have this understanding of where where people are when they come to see me because it has been very much my journey. And I think it it is a human thing to go through for for many people. Um I uh I found I found that when I went went to medical school, I had no idea how stressful it was going to be until I was in the throes of it. And and it was so stressful, Crystal. The first year just about did me in. And so so I discovered I discovered meditation after that first year. Uh and meditation really changed the whole experience for me. It helped me reshape my perspective, and and that's that's a huge part of it, is seeing seeing your trauma in a new light, so that it is something that is actually helping you, something that is of service to you rather than something that is breaking you. And so instead of seeing myself as a broken person, which I did in initially before the before meditation, before the process of change came, um, you know, I I approached life from a victim standpoint. If you were to have read my medical school personal statement, it was all about the trauma that had happened to me and how how I wanted to help other people, you know, not not be in that space. But uh but if you are a victim of your circumstances, it's really hard to help other people if you're still in that mind space. And so it I had to change it. I had to change how I viewed my trauma. Um because it was it was not helpful. It was making the stress more stressful because I was having flashbacks, you know, I had some PTSD that I that I hadn't dealt with, and um and that was coming up for me when, you know, when I would see when I would have to, even just reading about car accident victims or, you know, like people who were traumatized by different things that I had been traumatized by in my younger age. Um it was very emotional for me. And and it's hard to make clear and rational decisions from an emotional standpoint. Meditation really helped helped me find equanimity and and so I could approach situations from a logical stance. Yes, still be empathetic or compassionate, really, is where I want to come from. I want to come from a place of compassion for for others, um, but to do it in a clear your logical way. So so meditation. That is the that is the foundation of my wellness routine. I like the kundalini for being able to raise energy and to um I mean you can do so many different things with kundalini because it is the it it affects consciousness. The nervous system is more robust because of it. And the asana I I I I love yoga. Yeah. I don't know if you knew this about me but I love yoga. I do. And it and it informs uh you know how I practice in life. So I start every morning with a 10 minute meditation, silent meditation, and then I do a kriya. I usually have some 40-day kriya going on.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I love it. And then and then I'll do an asana for about 20 to 30 minutes for strength and to make sure my fashion moves appropriately and well. Yeah. And uh and and that's kind of the daily routine for me the morning. At night I stretch before I go to bed. I meditate for 10 minutes before bed. I have a little ring tracker I I like to wear and and if I do not meditate before I go to bed then my sleep is a lot more rough. So I can see I can see that it is really obvious to me that this routine helps me. Yeah that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02

And I love the simplicity in it because it's the same thing we always hear to take care of ourselves.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah it's accessible. I I do acupuncture on myself too.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I had I had a patient not show up the other day you know they had other things going on and I took I took the hour for myself to place the needles and take a needle net.

SPEAKER_02

Wow that's really cool. That's really cool. I love that's probably the best advice you know if anyone's listening to is that consistency really does make a difference, doesn't it? And when you're off a couple days or a couple weeks you're like wondering who is running this life that I'm trying to take accountability for.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah you feel it you totally feel it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah thank you for that I have just a couple one or two more questions if you're up for it. And they're like a little bit more about um maybe some personal stuff. So you just decide how much or little you want to share because I'm so curious and resonate with the animals in your life and how much you love animals and keep hearing about your birds and I wonder if you'd share anything about the significance of them and things like that.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah so I was a veterinary technician before before I went into human medicine. I was a licensed vet tech for 10 years. I I loved I love the animals. I have two African gray parrots that are like toddlers that never grow up and and they came to me I I specialized in avian medicine so bird medicine when I was in when I was a technician. And both of these birds were given to me along the way by by people who didn't want them. So they are now uh Zaire is my male he is 32 years old and my female is 22 and they have been with me for a couple decades.

SPEAKER_01

Wow how long do they live?

SPEAKER_04

Maybe about 50 years. Okay. I I I hope they live forever.

SPEAKER_02

I know that is so cool.

SPEAKER_03

I just love that voice. I can it might get I see how you could get tired of it but I love that little voice.

SPEAKER_02

I do too isn't their vocabulary like 9,000 words or something like that?

SPEAKER_04

I mean they they surprise me every day with new stuff that they learn and they are paying attention as if they were children and if you say if you say that you have to watch what you say because they will repeat what you say. Yeah of course and the funny part is they do it in context and so they are understanding what they say I one of them one of them says a a word that that always comes out when I drop something and it's it is uncanny it's really funny and also maybe I shouldn't laugh so hard when it happens because it encourages it but that is also I want to encourage it.

SPEAKER_01

But also what is life for if we can't enjoy some of those moments.

SPEAKER_02

No I love it. And as I've been working with animals too I just noticed that all the things you mentioned reading the energy hands on palpitation like all of these other practices that a doctor couldn't survive doing animal medicine without that, right? Right. So it's a very it's a very interesting medical practice.

SPEAKER_04

I mean acupuncture and and manipulation for horses pretty powerful yeah you see you see this happening that's a thing that's what I've been leaning into my I have one horse right now that goes to the chiropractor.

SPEAKER_02

I hope my husband doesn't listen to this what are you paying for she goes to the chiropractor every and every time I'm just there absorbing it all learning it all like watching the manipulation watching the signs watching how their nervous systems work and I do have a plan one day when the kids grow to just start stepping down that path of veterinary school again. So we'll cross paths the other way. You started there and did medical school I started as a medical school dropout and I think that maybe the later half of my life is going in that direction. Because what else are we going to do with our time? That's right. I mean I can probably do it in a very less stressful way because apparently I already know Kundalini meditation so hopefully it'll be as stressful as the other people participating. Anyways I just think that is a really cool history and a lot of people would resonate with that especially a lot of people who are sensitive or a lot of my listeners who are in this world really understand and heal and get behind, you know, learn from the animal kingdom. And so I think it it informs and probably plays a part in your intuitiveness and the way you work and understand things. I think that's cool. I also wonder um if you'd be willing to share about a little bit more about maybe a helpful framework for calling on our angels or ancestors for help and things because some of that came through after my session with you as well and probably during the session that I think is pretty incredible important and true whether people know what's happening or not I think there are guides, you know, always here guiding our path and I think you had a really cool perspective on it.

SPEAKER_04

Great question. Yeah um I definitely I feel like um I feel like we are surrounded by helpful energy and it's recognizing that we are that can sometimes be challenging right um and it it wasn't until later in my training that I started to realize that there was help out there for me. You know and and wanting to help and I just had to invite it in before it could because we we have so much I think that we have a lot more power over what can come and go in our in our perspective in our consciousness than than sometimes we realize we have power over and so you can invite in the bad you can invite in the good and if you choose if you consciously choose to invite in the good the good will show up for you. It will continue to show up for you. But if you are expecting the bad to show up that's that's an invite for the bad the bad you say good and bad maybe it's a lesson you're inviting in you know something that you don't really want but you're inviting that in asking for it. I one of my earlier lessons where I got things that I didn't necessarily want but looking back I I I asked for I I had a theme of love for for about a year. I wanted to learn about love and in my opening meditations for the day you know I'll usually ask I'll usually say hey dear universe or something to that effect of I really want to learn about love today. Oh boy that's a big ask crystal like how do you learn about love? Well you have to be shown what it is to not be loved first and you're inviting that in and that's okay and you have to be okay with what it feels like to not be loved and and then you start to learn what love is because there was the void there. I uh I started learning I started learning how to call in different energy forms too um unknowingly at first is an energy form and it can show up in many ways but but but naming different energies too by name by person's name I've also found calls in that energy which is something to experiment with. Right? It's why not be open to to seeing what that feels like for you if you want to know more about a person in history maybe call that in say hey hey at still founder of osteopathy what were you actually doing? Why don't you show me and see what happens because it can blow your mind what actually starts to show up in in your in your imagination that that could actually be more than that and you might learn a lot more than than you could have ever imagined you would learn from that yeah and knowledge is power and experience is Gnostic embodiment that's why we're here. Yes yes absolutely yeah in some of my meditations I have gone places I have journeyed places with with uh no intention to go to these places and I learned about energies that I had no idea existed which sent me on another path of learning what these things were so being open and curious and and maybe even calling things in that you are curious about to have a more embodied experience of what that that is powerful and awesome.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah that and I think that's just wise I think that's really cool in a really simple like pop topic way it sounds like I love what you're saying even in just like the manifestation practices that people like to talk about these days it's like people can start with not knowing that you have that power, right? You're a victim. And then you find out about some of this creation power that we all have. And so then you go there, right? You take a journey, you use it, you ask for that embodied energy but then you learn about it. Right. And if you've been there y'all know what I mean when I'm saying you learn about it. It doesn't mean you become internet famous overnight. Maybe you do or you become the world's next pop star or maybe you do but what I mean is you learn about it. You whatever you learn more of you learn all more of the good, bad, the ugly you expand, you learn all about it, right? Right. And then kind of like you're saying you come to the other side and you're like oh the means was the end actually now I have wisdom and learn about it so I can use that energy for what I need it for but it's no longer like you know this pot of gold in the sky or something that you think there's just I guess there's just less good and bad, you know, like Rumi and Ram Das talks about all the time. It's just more of like is this energy helpful for me? Right. Is this supportive for what I'm learning? And that's why I just love the way you talked about it because you can call the support in when you need it. You can move in a certain direction in your alignment and your journey with help like I guess we're always surrounded by it. It's always here and the biggest lesson it sounds like is be mindful of it. Yes be unconscious of it just be mindful of what you're calling in I love your example of the victim the victim paradigm and how you wrote that you wrote that entry to admission to medical school. So that's so interesting to see how far we've come. Yes I'm curious how you'd write it now but mostly I like to end with this question of if there's a message or something on your heart, if there's just a learning you feel like is so pertinent to yourself or the collective right now that you might be willing to share with us, what would that be?

SPEAKER_04

Great. Good so I think I think right now we're going through such a tremendous amount of change with technology and and our world is changing really fast. Right and you hear about AI coming in and taking everybody's jobs and and just annihilating the world as we know it maybe or it could be one of the best things that happens to humanity right and somewhere in the middle is where I like to be with equanimity. I think trusting yourself more is the message I want to leave. Because because when we are not trusting we tend to allow fear to come in and make our decisions for us. But if you can trust yourself and have the courage to do what what your heart is calling you to do then you don't give away your freedom. You don't give away your power in that it's it's one of the things that I see happen to so many of my colleagues who who talk about right now burnout, that word is such a a big word used in the medical industry for doctors, for nurses but really uh the medical industry would be nothing without them and they have more power than they realize they have to be able to change the system that they are in and if they trusted that and and uh went with that I think that they could make tremendous change. And with with the knowing that AI is coming and that the algorithm-based thinking is going to be taken over by by AI, you know, because uh AI does algorithms like a human never could or should really yeah um I think trusting your intuition is going to be really so important as as we move forward with the technology because technology as far as I know doesn't have that kind of intuition yeah I haven't heard of that yet an intuitive AI no but I love that thank you for that message self-trust self-trust yeah thank you for that and I'm really looking forward to re-listening to all of this when I edit it too because it's so it's so full of so much and I'm really just appreciative of your time and the stakes you made today.

SPEAKER_02

Not only for my session but for this offering and verbally can we tell everyone how to reach you what's your Instagram what's your preferred method like what events you have coming up for anyone who's local and of course all this goes in the show notes.

SPEAKER_04

My clinic is called feather and flow do and I'm on Instagram at feather and flow do as well my I have an event for the summer solstice coming up where I'm doing an educational booth at Purify Wellness Center in Pleasant Grove, Utah. That's going to be tomorrow. Well okay so so summer solstice stuff. So I have various things popping up I I'm actually going out to a dunk camp. I don't know so sports events I'll show up at different sports events and I'll have all the table out there helping athletes out. And um people could book you can book me for that right they can go on my website and see when my next Sound bath event is going to happen and Instagram I'll be posting on there as well. But I'm still kind of new in the space on my own. So this is one of the things that I am trusting myself on moving away from a schedule that was made for me and administrators who did everything to kind of set up what my day would look like and tell me how to do everything to trusting in my own skill set and and know that I can I can dictate my own schedule and be okay.

SPEAKER_03

And be okay. That's the part we can do these things and be okay.

SPEAKER_02

That's the part I'm working on too and I'm just really excited to see how the universe expands things for you and opens the doors and what what you intuitively like feel like grasping onto and I mean it just in my mind the possibilities are endless you know yes me too because the space word is it's it's just curious and fun. Like my practice right now is in in my morning meditations to ultimately cultivate a feeling of who am I and what does the universe want from me? And just kind of sitting in that space of uncertainty and receptivity and it sounds like that's also where you're at and we're just we're blessed to hear from you and know you and gosh I just love it. It just nothing lights me up more than people leaning into this sort of eclectic gift expansion.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

I'm so excited thank you for listening connect with me on Instagram at CrystalZenyoga. Subscribe on my website at crystalzinyoga.com to receive tools and practices for your holistic journey and to be the first to know about offerings workshops trainings and retreats we live in powerful times that require courage bravery compassion authenticity community and grounding you're not alone check out my free content classes and meditations on YouTube under Crystal Zinn Yoga and have a beautiful day. Satnaw