Self Compassion and Healing with Soulla #84

FULL EPISODE! There’s nothing more impactful to your mental and physical health than your ability to access and practice real self compassion. Releasing this beautiful conversation with Soulla Demetriou felt like offering my heart a deep exhale. This episode is truly healing for your mind, body, and whole self — a reminder of how much transformation becomes possible when we meet ourselves with awareness, tenderness, and self-compassion. Soulla’s wisdom through The Soulshine Way™ is the quiet, powerful kind that restores the nervous system, softens old patterns, and leads you back home to who you really are.

If you feel called to work with Soulla, explore her 1:1 mentorship, upcoming retreats, and transformational programmes at her website, and learn how her somatic, self-compassion-rooted approach can support your own journey toward Liberated Living.

Tune in — this conversation is medicine. 

Website: https://www.withsoulla.com

Book: https://www.withsoulla.com/always-enough

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/withsoulla

Free Self-Compassion Course: https://www.withsoulla.com/courses/7-steps-course-sign-up

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Crystal Zinn Podcast. I believe our bodies are a living map of the entire universe. All the answers reside within. Remember, you are sovereign, whole, and infinitely valuable. And the best gift we can give to the world is our own healing. Join me as we explore holistic tools, spiritual practices, and paradigms that are shifting the way people experience life, business, and relationships. I love to share education on the most recent medical research and cutting-edge technology on anatomy, neurology, trauma development, and more to give us a foundation in understanding how to align, utilize, and upregulate our physical systems. Ultimately, this podcast is a witness and support to people on their journey of remembering, an inspiration for all of us to keep going and a reminder that we are not alone. Welcome to the Crystals in Podcast. Today I have with me Sula Dimitriu. Thank you so much for joining me this morning, which is your end-of-day evening meeting.

SPEAKER_05 1:07

Oh my gosh, my pleasure to be here. And I'm very impressed. You said my name perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

It just kind of rings off the tongue when you said it, and it sounds so lovely.

SPEAKER_05 1:18

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

So I was really interested when I connected with your assistant about all of your topics, namely the biggest one was self-compassion and the road to all of these other things, uh, including injury repair, trauma, and what self-compassion and IFS or internal family systems, what role those things play and how important they are. And I have found that in my practices and some of my learnings and my teachers have guided me through a lot of these things. So I was so excited to hear your take on it and what you've been facilitating for people. Um, so once again, thank you for being here. And I wonder how you would like to be introduced, what you want us to know about you, what your mission is right now.

SPEAKER_05 2:08

Thank you so much. Um so yeah, I am passionate about self-compassion, but it really didn't start there on my journey. You know, it took me a while to realize how powerful self-compassion is as a component of our healing and of our journey to really embodying um a state of inner freedom. And this journey was one that began with myself as someone who had um experienced a lot of trauma as a child, and and then going into my teens with anxiety, my early adult years with panic attacks and depression, and really suffering and having a curiosity and a desire to not feel trapped and stuck like that was my fate, and that was what life had to be for the rest of my days. I just couldn't accept that. One, it was too painful, and two, there was just so much of me, like there was such a an intuition of wisdom of my true spirit, I guess, um, that I couldn't ignore. And so I went on a really long path of um curiosity and discovery that started with spiritual practice and opened into um somatic psychology, many different modalities. And as I look back now at you know, nearly 20 years of this exploration, what I came to see is at the heart of all of it is the relationship we have with ourselves. You know, wherever you are, whatever your hope is, whatever your intention with this growth and evolution and healing journey, wherever you find yourself, ultimately the relationship with ourselves is where we need to begin for any true, sustainable and integrated change. And not just the relationship with ourselves in a generic way, but can we be the greatest ally, friend, support to ourselves? And that's really the essence of self-compassion. And so that's my mission right now to help as many people as possible transform their relationship with themselves to transform their lives.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Wow. That's incredible and so super powerful. I know we hear a lot of those little taglines like self-love and self-compassion superficially, but you added a depth there. I just wanted to highlight that is everything that happens to you in the world and the way you move through it and what's showing up as your mirror is all about how deeply you've met yourself and that relationship. And I love that you highlighted that it all starts there and it all goes back there. Even sometimes when you think this, you know, the other, this other thing is happening, what's going on? If you remember what you just said, it's so beautiful. Thank you for sharing some of your personal history through that in your early adult years, because um, I know that that's uh resonant with a lot of people, me included. You know, we're not alone in that. Um yeah, it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 5:21

And that's such an important component of self-compassion. If you're familiar kind of with some of the steps as it's often taught, the second step is understanding our common humanity. So often when we're struggling with what's happening around us or within us, there's a sense of aloneness in that. There's a sense of it's me and it's only me, and and that really can like perpetuate how hard that is. And so the second step, um, as self-compassion is taught by Dr. Kristen Neff, is recognize our common humanity, recognize we're not alone, recognize this is part of being human, and you know, the teachings of understanding as humans, our essence is whole and complete and perfect to use that word, but our our nature is imperfect. We are inherently imperfect, but making peace, knowing our wholeness, that light that kind of runs like a river beneath all of that, and so understanding um that we're not alone is such a powerful bridge when we're struggling to kind of find our way back to peace.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

I think that is probably the first thing I have a question for you on. Um and what we do at the beginning of my podcast is just tune in for 60 seconds, give ourselves and the listeners a chance to come back to yourself. Um, you've probably had a long day of busy work, so it might land differently than me. I just, for me, I just woke up. But if you're open to it, um, I'd like to invite you to join me in that, and then we'll dive into those topics. So let's take a breath together, an inhale, and a really soft, intuitive exhale. And any of the listeners, if you're in a place where it's safe to do so, close your eyes, set all the thoughts, vibrations, things coming at you on the shelf, knowing that you can reach for them in just a moment. And then observe your first uninhibited inhale where you do nothing.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Notice the systematic sensations in your throat as you continue to do less than three or four breaths.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

One breath the shoulders, the belly. On this exhale, lift your chin, release the breath.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Lovely relax now. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Thank you so much. I really wanted to just dive into the nitty-gray because for my listeners who know me and my content, they're gonna be like, of course you have Sula on today because her list and her media kit and her offerings and what she puts out into the world is like everything. I told her I was a kid in a candy shop. It's like everything that just lights me up and resonates and feels like a very valuable and resonant path through this world for me. And so I'm hoping they love it just as much. And so I kind of just wanted to like rapid fire and like get into it. Go for it. I'm ready. I'm ready. So the biggest thing is kind of what we ended with before the meditation right now, which is sort of the how. Is there a way you could simply describe for us what exactly do you mean by self-compassion? How is that played out? What does that look like in a group setting and an alone self-setting?

SPEAKER_05 10:20

Oh, I like those questions about the application as well. So I'll start with what self-compassion is because it's such an important question because we hear this word all the time, you know, as you say, self-love, self-compassion. And it can feel a bit fluffy and a bit empty if we don't really know what it means. Self-compassion, the essence of it is can we be there for ourselves as we would a loved one or a friend? It's actually really, really simple. We don't need to overcomplicate it beyond that. The application of it can feel more challenging, but the essence is can I be there for myself as I would a friend or a loved one? And what's really key about this is can I be there for myself in this way? Not just when things are going well, but in the tough moments. In the moments when life is challenging or when my experience within myself is challenging, in the moments when I have actually made a mistake, can I still be there for myself as I would be there for a beloved child, for a partner, for a best friend? Can I bring that same quality of friendship? And in doing so, a kind of unconditional presence and love to ourselves. And so that's really the essence of self-compassion. And in terms of the question of how does that look like when we're in a space with others or on our own, I guess all of these paths begin with self-awareness. Like we have to first notice what's happening within us, you know, this kind of pause between stimulus and response. Um, I'm a mindfulness facilitator as well. So that's been a really important step for me. Like, can I notice in any situation, be it in a group, be it on my own, like what is actually happening? And that's the first step of self-compassion. Can I recognize what is happening here? Is this a moment of struggle? Is this a painful moment? Is this a moment, for example, in a group that isn't okay with me? Is something happening that isn't okay, right? Recognizing that. And now how can I respond to that? How can I respond in a way that acts in friendship as an ally and as a support to myself? And so in a group, that could look like making choices or putting in boundaries or, you know, expressing and communicating a need alone. That could look like, well, how does the voice in my head sound right now? Or what am I feeling right now? Well, what choices do I have to respond to this in the most loving way? How can I be with myself in the most loving, kind, nurturing way? There's many nuances and as many moments as there are in life, there are ways to respond with self-compassion, but it's always that kind of can I recognize what is here? Can I recognize my humanity? And can I respond from a place of love? The simplicity uh which I often often offer to clients is what would love say right now? What would love do right now in any moment? We can keep it really simple. Like, what would love say or do? And that becomes the way we meet ourselves and our experience of life. Does that help clarify a little?

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Yes, that's brilliant. That helps so much. I really appreciate the simplicity. So thank you for that. And I think the way you described it gave it a really nice flow between self and others, and self and others. In my experience, I found that a lot of times the group and the mirror and the social setting kind of is our catalyst for begetting our learning in a lot of these things. And then when we find ourselves alone processing it, that's the important part of are we avoiding? Are we CPTSD? Are we witnessing ourselves like that self-process, which naturally derives from the group process? And then having re-enter the group process, all like you said, had that water of self-compassion in those questions you asked, underlying a lot of that. So that did bring, at least in my mind, a lot of clarity as far as if I'm asking these questions in a group, even if it's not solvable in that moment. This self-awareness was such a lovely, simple piece. And then if one were to take it back to their personal practice, how would love respond here? I did really great. And I want to be witnessed in that and showing up for yourself as that friend. So it just seems like a beautiful dance. One can't be done without the other. And that's why I sort of asked, like, what would that look like to you in those settings? Because in my experience, a lot of times we find ourselves in a group setting where we're not sure what our choices are in the moment. We're just simply in that learning and observing, um, depending on what your somatic response is to that. And a lot of the deep learning comes in that personal state. Does that look like a meditation? Does it look like a thought process? Does it look like a journal? But the way I heard you answer it was yes to all of those nuances. And that's going to be very personal and different depending on the situation. But the simplicity and the anchor there is how would a loved one respond to this and then treating yourself that way? And I also know in my experience, when I've accessed that and treated myself that way, if one, if you haven't done it, the listeners haven't done what Sula's talking about, the immediate, the surprise at how immediately, how quickly, the depth of the peace and the compassion and the relief you feel in just that moment, I cannot stress enough. It is the same moment as when somebody looks in your eyes and says, Me too. It's okay. I love you. I understand. We can absolutely access that. And I love that tool you gave us with those simple phrases. I had never thought of that. And that felt it felt similar to what I recall in those moments. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_05 16:41

There are there are three other questions which I really love and often um share with clients, which is in any moment to notice like, what am I feeling? And then once you've checked in with that, what am I feeling, which is the presence, priest, like the self-awareness, then it's well, what do I need based on what I'm aware I'm feeling? What do I need right now? And again, this is could be anything from a glass of water to going outside to a hug to you know, some kind words towards myself. And then the third step is how can I be with this in the most loving way? Knowing what I'm feeling, knowing what do I need, how can I be with this in a loving way? Really beautiful, simple practice that can be done moment to moment. The key thing about self-compassion is we can do it in a very big way. There are moments in our life where we really have to lean into self-compassion, or we, or that's a choice. But actually, self-compass self-compassion happens in many micro moments. It happens in seconds, many little seconds where we choose, like, oh, this is what's happening. How can I be with myself right now, lovingly? And stepping out and getting some fresh air, getting that glass of water, making a cup of tea, whatever it can be. Each time you do that, you're filling up this reservoir within you of saying, I'm here for myself. And just like you said, that me too, the me too that makes us feel like, oh, feel so seen. Like how powerful when that me too comes, that feeling of being seen comes from within ourselves. There's such resilience that we build knowing we can trust ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Resilience, and I know you'll say this right off the bat. And the most beautiful piece of that that I've learned in my self-practice, and you've seen on probably hundreds of thousands of clients, is the more that's accessed, the more time spent there, the more quickly that's accessed, the more it goes outward so easily. So the more compassion I have for my child or another person who needs help or someone who's probably or offended me, or you know, anything like that. And that's the piece that also feels relieving to me is um there's no selfishness in this practice because it's so immediately exactly how we interact with the outside world.

SPEAKER_05 19:20

Yeah, something I'm glad you use that word selfish, because a lot of my community is female. Um, and there's something I think perhaps even more challenging for women around self-compassion, this belief that it's selfish or self-indulgent somehow. And that's definitely something that often has to be overcome, as that belief of like, no, it's it's actually okay to be kind to yourself, it's actually okay to live in friendship with yourself. And they say, I mean, what it what I'm thinking is how when we come into greater relationship with ourselves in that way, sometimes how we go out into the world is more boundaried, which then isn't always easy for those around us when we start having healthier boundaries. But ultimately, the safest person in the room is also the person with the the healthiest boundaries. And so learning to come into relationship when we're own, we are our own best friend, and then stepping out and interacting in the world from that place also creates much healthier environments around us, and so it is the opposite of selfish, but it also isn't giving at cost to ourself.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Yes, and I wonder what you think about this um, because this is just personal for me. I find it inspiring and enabling. I find it permissive in a good way when a woman models that for me. Um think of one woman in particular who's done a lot of good in my life in the last year, who is exactly what you said. And a lot of phrases um she taught me this year sound like um, you know, I know I committed to that. I am just feeling really under the weather and really tired today. Like I can't show up as my best self. And I feel like I need to take this mental health day. Can we reschedule that meeting next week so I can show up? You know, um, I can't take this much on anymore. I feel like I would love for this to be my piece. And could you do that piece or could we find another way to fix this? Um, we're partners in business in a in a venture and friends, and just the rhetoric of the bigger picture when a woman has more than just being told or taught it, when a woman has modeled it to me, like, you know, it's okay. I know we have the gym planned at 11 45 today, but if you're too tired, let me know. Or when they when they reclaim that for themselves, I actually find it permissive and inspiring. And connecting. And that seems counterintuitive.

SPEAKER_05 22:06

Yeah, absolutely. It's so inspiring because we don't often get to see those healthy boundaries. Like if we didn't grow up with healthy boundaries modeled to us, it can feel really hard to learn them as an adult because it can feel inherently selfish somehow. And so other people modelling healthy boundaries really gives us that permission. And we can notice how we feel safer with that person because even though they might not always say or do things the way we want, we can trust them. We can trust them in what they're sharing with us about their needs and what's okay and what isn't for them. And there's something really, in essence, much safer about that and about that person when they do have healthy boundaries.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

I love that. I love that truth is higher on a priority. It sounds like you're saying is an epitome for trust than just endless giving. We can trust. That's so beautiful. Because you brought up that point with women. I really wanted to ask you about illnesses and injury and self-compassion, which we know that that's just women's thing, autoimmune diseases, injuries that never heal. Can you um tell us a little bit about your belief system and experience and the research behind self-compassion and injuries?

SPEAKER_05 23:37

Hmm. I mean, I think if we look at the opposite of self-compassion and what might be happening from an internal family systems lens, so what is the barrier to being kind to ourselves? Then we start getting into the realms of kind of our evolutionary makeup. Like what is our nervous system and how is it developed to protect us and to keep us safe? And part of that is our negativity bias, the part of us that remembers the negative to keep us safe. And so when we're thinking about the opposite of when there is self-compassion present, we might think of it through the lens of in that place, our nervous system is dysregulated because it is working super hard in order to keep us safe all the time, often with threats that it perceives that maybe aren't real. This is where internal family systems become really interesting, which is a form of psychotherapy which I work with because within the nervous system we come to understand we have parts. We have parts of us which have been adapted towards protection, parts like our inner critic or our people pleaser or our over-deliverer or our relentless kind of overachieving part. And so these are all parts of us that have evolved to protect us somehow on an unconscious level, and they all live within the nervous system in some way. And so when we start seeing this, it's like a bit of a long thread to back to your question. When we start thinking about perhaps illness, you mentioned autoimmune, for example, we might consider that through the lens of a system which is adapted so much towards protection that it has led to a nervous system which is always working so hard in overdrive that it's almost like an engine of a car that is constantly on and is burning out quicker. And that's starting to create um faulties and breakdowns and things which are just from like it's like having your foot revving on the gas. You say the gas, don't you, in the States? Hopefully I'm saying that right.

SPEAKER_04 25:42

Well, you we just say the accelerator. I'll say, but I heard on a movie you say the gas. I'm gonna go with that.

unknown 25:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 25:53

But it's like constantly believing you have to have your foot down on the gas because there's something chasing you endlessly. Like, what's gonna happen to your car? It's gonna overheat, it's gonna break down eventually. And I think that's really why we are seeing so many more conditions related to you know chronic illness, because we have nervous systems which are just overworking through chronic stress because of these parts of us which are protecting us to keep us safe in some unconscious way, and all of that, that whole world is kind of the opposite from self-compassion, a place when we can be with who we are and respond from a place of love and care and acceptance, and so we can see them almost um on that spectrum somehow.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Does that make sense? It makes so much sense, and thank you for taking us on that whole journey because you did explain it so well, and it sounds like what that's iterating is anytime we're not being our true selves, anytime we feel like we can't be authentic in the moment, uh, whether that's conscious or unconscious, and we can't be with an emotion, speak our truth, know our truth, know if we're in comfort and discomfort in any of the realm of emotion, from sadness to ecstatic joy, right? If there's ever a moment during the day when we can't fully feel freely and be our authentic self and speak our authentic self, the reasons for any of that is fear. And and we're going to choose another action out of fear and protection, right? Because there's fear. And so then we'll protect ourselves. Because it sounds like the only reason to not be, I love this, I'm uncomfortable here, I can't do that, I will do that. You know, the only reason for that is some sort of unconscious fear. And like you said, we get into the depth of that in IFS, and I want to ask you about that next. But because of that, we perform a behavior or we put our foot on the accelerator or gas to perform something else out of protection. And that method brings us into stress, cortisol, sympathetic nervous system. So the more we're doing that, the more we're just revving and overheating the engine. And it just makes so much sense how you described just doing that all the time, doing that sometimes once in a while. Okay. Yeah. But the world you described is a world that we perpetually live in, maybe 99% of the time, even in our sleep, where it's just revving, revving, revving. Yeah. And it makes sense to me how you explain that naturally. If we want to talk about injury and healing and things, we would have to take our foot off the gas pedal for long enough, consciously enough, to get in a place where healing can happen. Does that sound those are the thoughts that came to my mind?

SPEAKER_05 29:00

I I believe that nervous system is really key part of healing, you know, and to to stay I'm a coach, not a doctor nor a scientist, but from my experience and from working, you know, with thousands of people in in different stages of their healing journey, I think the nervous system is just really key. And so how do we find a place back to how do we find a way back to feeling safe again is absolutely fundamental. And how do we find balance again? And a lot of the work I do is about helping people understand what gets in the way of being able to feel safe in order to rest, because it's it's oftentimes not enough to say, well, I feel unsafe and I'm burnt out and I have chronic, you know, illness, for example. I just need to rest and calm my nervous system. That is very conscious, but that's not going to meet all the unconscious parts of your system that have been the perfectionist, the overachiever, the people pleaser, the you know, low boundary parts of us, because all of those parts have been working to keep us safe for so long. So they're gonna be like, I have to keep being perfect, I have to keep overworking, I have to keep being everything to everyone because, and this is what's really key, because if I don't, it is not safe. You know, I joke with clients that when we're working with these parts within us, um, these protective parts, they often believe that you know, all roots lead to annihilation. And we often say it's like if I weren't a perfectionist, then I would die. It sounds very dramatic, but that's how it lives in our nervous system, and that's how it lives in our inner system. It's really important to understand that. So having like a lot of compassion and giving a lot of grace to the person who's struggling because they know they need to act in a certain way, to feel better, to feel more well, to feel healthier, and yet they can't seem to do it because the system doesn't actually feel safe enough to embrace different behaviors yet.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Oh, that makes so much sense. Um, it's and it's also a compassionate view on it. Would you be willing to give us um a simplistic rundown for those of us who have not heard of internal family systems? What is that the practice of? And then how are you applying it in this? Like, I'm back to the how question again. How are you implying what does that look like when you actually dive? And I know it's it's really in depth, but what would you like us to know and understand about how the internal family systems method addresses this deep-seated fear and safety and fear of annihilation?

SPEAKER_05 31:45

Yeah, just a little casual fear of annihilation.

SPEAKER_03 31:50

Just how the people said.

SPEAKER_05 31:53

Yeah, so great question. And um, I've been talking all about the parts, which might mean absolutely nothing. Um, so internal family systems is an evidence-based um psychotherapeutic and psycho somatic model. Um basically, it's a form of therapy. That's a lot of words to say. It's a form of therapy, it's one of the fastest growing um forms of therapy that there is right now because we're seeing just such phenomenal results with it across the spectrum of coaching through to the deepest level of trauma. And it's a really beautiful practice because it's very much somatic, it's in the body. It's not just a talking therapy where we just talk and understand what's happened, what's happened, and how it's impacted us in our life. We actually get in to the nervous system, to the cells of the whole being, to actually really understand what is alive in us and um to meet it in a way that feels safe and loving and to repair the experiences we've had in our life. And the essence of IFS is that we all have self-energy and we all have parts. Self-energy, which you know, I'm sure is a practice or a time you're incredibly familiar with as a spiritual and yoga teacher. Self-energy is like the vast container, it's like the blue sky, right? So if you imagine the planet Earth and you've got the earth and you've got the blue sky around it, it's like that is self-energy, and it's always there, that blue sky, even when it's like the fiercest storm behind the weather is the blue sky, and that is self. And we all have that, but it can become obscured, right? It can become obscured through life's experiences and the emotions and the beliefs and the feelings we have, and then we also understand, I'll come back to self-that we all have parts. And if anyone's seen Inside Out, the movie, the Pixar movie, parts are like these little people in that movie. They're like the little angry part, the sad part, the joyful part, the fearful part. We all have these parts, and we use this language already, right? Like a part of me wants to do this, and a part of me wants to do that, a part of me is excited, a part scared. We all have this language and we all have parts. In IFS, the parts that we're interested in are the parts which have adapted in response to situations in our life which in the moment either were painful or in some way felt unsafe. I mean, pain and unsafety are kind of perceived in the same way. And so we get really curious about the parts of us that are either holding pain or are protecting us somehow. Because within the parts, we have what's called protectors and we have wounds. So we have the wound, which is in the moment when something happens which is very painful, a wound is formed. But that wound often, because of this evolutionary nervous system we have where we need to belong, we need to be safe, we need to have food, we need to have water, all very caveman-esque. That wound will often feel on an unconscious level incredibly unsafe for the system to feel. And so what happens is a protector comes in in that moment and says, we can't feel that ever again. So we're going to push that away. And that protector might be our inner critic, it might be the perfectionist. And the job of that protector is always to basically keep that wound from being felt in the system. Okay. And so when we work with IFS, first of all, we want to understand what's happening in the system. Like, what are the wounds that we're holding and what are the protectors in there? Because these protectors, if you imagine, they're obscuring that self-energy. And so it's like if you imagine self-energy is the conductor of an orchestra and all the protectors and all the parts, like all the different instruments. If you've got no self-energy, then you've got no conductor, then it's very noisy, right? It's not music. And so, what we want to do is come into a relationship from our own self-energy with all of these parts to help them realize that what they experience, because oftentimes they're stuck in the past, it's like they're frozen. So we want to help these parts realize that time has moved on and that it's safe to try another way. And it's only then that often we can really create sustainable change by really helping these parts of us understand it's safe to try another way. And that comes not from telling them, but from being with them from our own system with love, with curiosity, with calmness, so that the system can almost take an exhale of like, I'm safe. You know, again, going back to those words of me too, it's like you can say to yourself and these wounded parts within you, I'm here, you're safe, you're not alone, I'm listening. And then bit by bit the system starts to change. And all those protection that and protective parts that started maybe when we were two, maybe when we were eight, maybe when we were 12 or 18, start to realize that even though those experiences happened, they're over. Because so much of our wounding and the protection that arises as a result of the wounding gets frozen like groundhog day in the past. And so part of the IFS process is can we witness it? Can we be there for ourselves in the way we need it in that moment? And then can we free those parts from the past and bring them to the present where it's possible to be this like unburdened version of ourselves where we don't have to carry that anymore? And so it's a whole it's like a whole expedition into our subconscious. And if you're listening right now and you're like, whoa, what that sounds what's happening? Like it is quite a curious experience, it's very embodied. It's uh when you do the IFS, we speak to the parts, they speak, and it's it's very powerful. And the difference is to perhaps other therapies is that we're not trying to work it out, we're really shifting things in our body on an unconscious level, and that's how we create like a new scaffolding, like we create a new structure for our system, not by trying to force or think our way into new behaviors, but by the system feeling safe enough to embrace new behaviors, and that's a really key difference.

SPEAKER_00 38:37

Wow, yes, that's all I have to say. I think a really important point you made in there and metaphor with the orchestra stands out because what you mentioned we might be afraid of before annihilation, which is true, it's how the parts really feel, is the opposite of what you gave in that metaphor. And that really stands out because what happens when they are witnessed and reclaimed and and gotten to express and feel is they're given a seat at the table. They are invited into the orchestra to play their music in the original way they were supposed to before they took on the protector role. I once heard this system described to me by a shaman without any internal family systems and knowledge, but a process, a practice they used as your parts, uh basically ancestors sitting at a table, and they all need to be invited to turn inward and have a say at the board meeting, like at the table. And so I think that really stands out because we can just understand that through this expedition that you set in process, things are going to be invited in and included and connected, not fractal and annihilated. And that really stood out and was beautiful. And the fact that it could be an expedition, I was just thinking, all the time we spend in talk therapy or experience or maybe managing the workforce or employees or nuances of you know, communities outside of us, it seems like IFS, the way you're describing it, is doing that inward. So it could take some time. And could it be okay for us to just have that a living process?

SPEAKER_05 40:39

So the question I had there is can it take time and is it a living process?

SPEAKER_00 40:45

Yes, as opposed to it just being like we go in with Sula and we do one thing and we've completely figured it out, and now we're our unburdened self. Um, because the way you described it, there may be many parts that come up and are willing to communicate at different times, things we have to navigate, I guess. How a better question would be how time consuming or expeditious, or like could we expect this to be? Like, what's the narrative in our mind when we enter a practice like IFS?

SPEAKER_05 41:19

So something you you name there, which is really important, I think, is when you do IFS, it isn't like going for nine sessions of cognitive behavioral therapy and then that's it. It's it's really like a whole new way of understanding yourself and your world and everything around you. It is a lifelong practice, it's paradigm shifting. So when you when you learn these skills, my job isn't to do all the work for you. My job is to help you come into a relationship with yourself in a new way. So you are in self-leadership, and for you to build a strong enough foundation of that relationship to continue walking the path of your life with it. The work we do in a more therapeutic or coaching environment is can we help create space so enough of the burdened parts feel unburdened? That the way that they've been perhaps really deeply impacting your life in a challenging way, that burden's lifted. But the work is never done. You know, it's well, it's not even work. The journey is never complete because it's a journey of knowing yourself and again and again and again, choosing to respond to yourself from awareness, from love, and to be there for yourself in the way your system might need. It's definitely not something that we just do tick and it's finished. You become a different version of yourself in a way, with a different awareness. It's very beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

That resonates so much. It reminds me of when Ram Das says, you know, I've reached all these other states that people would call me enlightened and healed and all these things. And he said, It's actually not that I don't have any of those like neuroses that I began with. They're all still there. It's just I respond to them differently and they sit in a different place in my life.

SPEAKER_05 43:14

Oh, that's so true. Yeah, it's so powerful. And I and I talk, in fact, I work a lot with um the new neurodiverse community as well. I have ADHD and and I and many of my clients also um have ADHD brains, and and um it was something I was just talking about today with a client about the fact it's like these qualities of our brain don't change, it's that we don't respond, we don't become like enslaved to them. We can meet it with awareness. Oh, hold on, that's what's happening, or in Ramdust's case, whatever neurosis it might be. Oh, this is here. Huh, interesting. Okay, how can I be with this in a compassionate way? How can I be with this in friendship? And I think that's a really important um thing to define. Find in this journey of spiritual growth of healing, it's like we don't become this kind of um angelic being floating on a lily pad that's just got peace and you know harmonious music playing around us all the time. It's like we're still ourselves, it's just the way we interact, you know, life will still happen. But it's like how long do we spend in the dips? How quickly do we get out? How do we shift the way we respond? How attached do we become? That's really what changes. And of course, the more freedom we find in that, the less force those neuroses have within us, the less loud they are, you know, the quieter they become. They might still be there, but they're not, they're not taking over the show anymore.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

I love that. Thank you for that. And the thing that keeps the rhetoric that keeps running through my mind when you're saying this, which is like, oh, what you're talking about sounds so beautiful and unburdened and relieving and lovely. And that little tacky part is like the thing that wants to come in is the opposite of self-compassion, right? That's what will stop that flow. And so that peace about the only way to have those kind of relationships is obviously not to hate them and be so upset with them and spend time in the ditch. And it's it's just sinking into my body and a new level. And thank you for that. I wonder if you'd be willing to share like an anonymous real example that we could sink our teeth into, like a client story.

SPEAKER_05 45:31

I have a I have an example that I often use actually to explain this process, which hopefully will clarify because it it can be useful to understand that. And um, I had a client who had a lisp when she was a child, and so when she went to school, when she started in school with this Lisp, um, children being children, they were not super kind for her. And so, in that moment, you can imagine you have a young child in school. This is like an environment which is really key in their sort of formation of who they are and their sense of self. And so you have a wound that forms this wound that like other kids are laughing at me and they're being mean to me because of how I sound or because of something about me. That is a wound, and on the surface, that wound might feel embarrassment or it might feel you know the discomfort of kids not being friendly. But if you imagine where the roots of that pain go and think about that evolutionary and that annihilation, our nervous system and us as humans, we need to belong to feel that we can survive. And so, not only is this painful, but on some level, unconsciously, there's a fear that if kids are laughing at me, this is not safe and I might not survive this. That's how powerful it is. So, in that moment, you've got a wound which now is so painful and seen as such a threat to the very survival of the system that a protector almost immediately will form and it'll be like, we can't feel that wound ever again, that shame of who we are. We have to block this from happening. And so protect comes in. How that might sound is why would you say anything? No one cares what you have to say. As a three, four, five-year-old child, we don't have the capacity to be like, this is unsafe on a survival level. So I better not speak and I better, it doesn't work like that. It has to take a form where it can control us through the kind of thoughts that it's having. And so it might sound like an inner critic. It might be like, no one cares what you say. You know, why did you say that? That was so stupid. And so eventually that wound of speaking out is suppressed, the child no longer speaks out. Maybe they just come to be known as a introvert, and this could go on for all eternity, you know, this could last for a lifetime that you could just have a part that keeps you quiet, that keeps you from speaking out, that keeps you from being seen, and that's the way it protects. Does that make sense so far? Okay, so what's also important to understand is the moment that wound happens and the moment the protector happens, they're frozen in time. So if this happens when the little girl is five, these parts are five now. Even if you're 45, they still think they're part of a five-year-old system, and that's really important. That will keep going until we find ourselves in situations where this protective part is no longer able to keep that little wound away from the system. So, an example, and this is how I met this client, an example could be needing to speak out. This client, she was starting a business and she needed to put herself out there. She needed to market her business, she needed to stand up and speak about her expertise. She needed to be seen and she needed to be heard. So suddenly, up until you know her mid-thirts, whatever age she was at that point, she'd been able to keep quiet and that had been fine. But now something important happened and it was like I have to be seen. How did that look? The protection ramps up. Panic attacks, real inner critic, real suppression, like real physical, like we cannot be heard or seen. This is not safe. We'll do anything to shut it down. That's more protection, all suppressing. And so now, if you imagine all of that, like the world, as we spoke about, what we then want to do is come in as self-energy, which is like the container around it. And what I mean by the container is kind of what we talk about in meditation, like the witness energy, like, can I witness what is here? And all we ever need to do is be a glimmer bigger than the experience. That's to say, we just need to notice it's happening, and the mere fact of noticing is us then coming and sitting next to it and being the witness to it. Does that make sense? And so that self-energy is by nature full of infinite compassion. And so by coming into self and meeting that system, the parts, we can start letting it know it's okay. I'm so sorry you went through that. There was nothing wrong with you. You deserve to be heard. I'm here with you, you're safe, you're loved. Effectively, self-energy becomes the parent, it becomes the witness that we always needed in that moment. So the wound didn't arise, and so the protection feels safe to stop protecting. And so eventually, with the support of that loving adult, which is ourselves, bit by bit we learn it's safe. In this case, this example I've given, it's safe to be heard, safe to be seen. Every little step you take of taking a presentation, then you can be like, You see, we're safe. You see, we're okay. We didn't die. And bit by bit the system comes to trust you. And that's how the process works. And that's one example, and it works with everything. It's incredible, you know, with anything we might bring, and the many, many ways this can turn up, but it's very beautiful because can you see how it's not we're not telling ourselves to be different, we're actually meeting it, whatever's there, and we're being with it in such a way that it's it starts behaving in a new way itself rather than being told to.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Yeah, it's very different. And that seems like the only way because if the more telling, the more intellectualized it gets, maybe that would even cause the protector to, you know, amplify their too, which often happens um with affirmations or mantra or just intellectualized and telling, because that is already what the protector is protecting you from. And so I love that you're meeting it with that energy. It sounds like it's a lot when people say uh reparent yourself, like be that loving adult that wasn't there at the moment in all in all of those moments. Like I love what you said. That's a lifelong process because we don't know what would come up for us tomorrow, or when that need comes up that mirrors or shows us the wound that's now ready. So the method and getting used to and comfortable with the method you described. That's really important. That was a beautiful example. Thank you for sharing it. I hope it did to the listeners what it did to me too, which was kind of putting myself in those places and applying the personal things for me. And I just felt like I felt like tears were gonna come to my eyes in places I still have yet to meet myself like that. And so this is like, oh, thank you for that reminder and that glimpse into that method that was beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 52:35

And I feel cool just to share another example quickly, if that's okay. Yes, yeah, just because I think this is one that might be really resonant. I'm thinking of, well, this isn't necessarily one specific client. This is many ways as this has expressed with clients, but in one example, you know, working with a client who really, really wanted to make these changes in her life for her health, for her well-being, and knew that um it was it was really impacting her, not making these choices in the way she was eating and how she was caring of herself in her well-being. And it was, it was such a tension. Like, why can't I just do this? Like, why can't I just go to the gym? Why do I, why can I not just eat, you know, the way that nourishes me? Why can I not, and just like this inner war happening and being so frustrated? And I think this is actually what got me to to find IFS all those years ago, seeing how often there was this tension between a desire to do something and not being able to do it. And in this example, um, say I'm thinking of a client who had um was carrying quite a lot of weight and it was really impacting her health um in a very tangible way. And there was a sense of like, why can't I just do what I need to lose weight? This is really impacting my life. And when we did the IFS work, we discovered that having this weight was a protector. This was a way of being safe, of not being seen, of protecting her body, of protecting, there was deep love and protection in that. And so it felt like for that protector, if we lose weight and if we do this, we're not safe because of experiences that had happened as a child, because this was almost like a protective arm around her, literally the weight on her body. And I've seen this many times. And so, in order for her to actually be able to embrace a healthy way of living, that whole system needed to know it was safe to actually lose weight and that it was safe to be seen and safe to be in her body.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Do you see that difference? Yes. I love that you shared that one because someone did, one of my really good peers in this community shared something about losing her baby weight after her last baby. And she said it stuck and stuck and stuck until she was compassionate and felt safe with herself. They, those may have been the exact phrases she uses sometimes talking about body shapes, you know, and nuances of your body on any end of the spectrum is very taboo. And I'm always trying to be very accurate in the way I talk about it. So thank you for sharing that example, especially with a lot of the things that are pervading our community over here in the West right now. And I don't know if that, I mean, I'm assuming there's similar tags. I don't know if it's worse or better where you are, but it is the same. It's big here, it's prevalent and talking about the way the body is carrying weight, shape, muscle much too little, uh, you know, in any aspect is very sensitive. And I was very interested and intrigued because I have felt that within my own body. I have felt that at times in my life where I've been in fight or flight, my confirmation has absolutely changed. And it's felt lighter, not just in weight, but and it's not always been that way. Sometimes it's been not enough weight, and then weights come back on when I felt safe. But the confirmation for the authenticity is modeled in your actual physical body too, in that way. And I found that fascinating when she shared that as well. So thank you for that. Not to say that like this is the problem and this is why you can't, but also have you considered shelfing all of those goals, like you said, she had, and addressing the compassion and the parts. And then let's see what happens. Because maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but that's a beautiful example of in my experience, 100% of the time it will then change, even though we're at least I've been afraid to say that so boldly.

SPEAKER_05 56:50

Yeah, I I, you know, in any that's one example, but there are many, many different ways when we have things that we're feeling like this inner war between us, like these polarity we call it, the polarity between a part that wants one thing and a part that wants the other. It's not that either one is right or wrong. It's that we want to be really curious about what's happening in there? What are we believing? What in what way is this trying to protect us? What is the fear of what might happen if I did or didn't do this or have this? You know, it's it's about the other quality of self-energy is curiosity. Can I be curious about what's happening here and be open to understanding? I think the essence of IFS, because I've shared a lot of words and it can feel a little bit abstract in a way. I think the essence is like, can we be curious and understand that oftentimes there's something going on beyond what we're perceiving? There's a subconscious system that is playing out, which is geared towards our survival.

SPEAKER_00 57:52

Yeah. And sometimes it takes a little bravery, curiosity, bravery, um play. Yeah, I know I really love Dr. Richard Swartz on IFS stuff. And I also know he uh there was something I read on his about play too. And I think we all know that playing and repetition will teach your body and brain something in something like 20 or 30 repetitions, whereas if it's not in play, it's like seven or eight hundred.

SPEAKER_05 58:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 58:21

Some research like that. So I find that approaching some of these things, and I wonder if you've ever experienced this in a safe environment where other people are modeling co-regulation and that reparentification for you to help you feel safe at first, if it can be done in play. Uh and I'm sure you do this like on your retreats and things, right? There's always this element of lightness and curiosity in play. Um, and I do a lot of these things. I've learned a lot of practices for children. And when I've learned how do we teach this to children whose brains can only understand things at a certain level, all the practices come out in play. And I'm like, I am not above that. I think I need that to be brave enough to be curious. I think and that's what I actually love about yoga, and I know you teach yoga too, is a lot of times these thematic movements can be in cultivation of some play that allows me to access those parts.

SPEAKER_05 59:21

What I'm what I'm really connecting to when you talk about play is like ultimately in the system, we're trying to help any parts of us that have taken on burdens in our life to feel unburdened. And quite often these parts are young. And when you do the full unburdening process in the full IFS, you know, therapeutic process, you ask those young parts, like, what are the qualities you're welcoming back in now? Now you don't have to carry the wound, the pain, the protection. And it's like so often it's play. Like to just because that's that's the greatest gift for a child. To feel safe enough to just be a child is to be safe enough to feel play, playfulness, and to be free and to be light, and and so in order to access play, there has to be a certain degree of safety and permission in our system to even be able to embody that. And that in itself is very healing.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

Yeah, that's so well said. I was looking here because before we end, I just was wondering if you'd be willing to um my other note here was on the joy and aliveness we've taken ourselves kind of through this arc of how the nervous system works and the pieces our um parts play and the importance of self-compassion in the modus operandi of addressing all of these things. And then on one of the taglines it says joy and aliveness. And I kind of feel like that's the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. You know, what is what does that truly look like to feel unburdened? And what can these practices get us if you want to share in words or another story or anything like that? That is the exciting part for me.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:06

Yeah, so through all these years of work, I developed this methodology called the Soul Shine Way. My company is called Soul Shine, and the Soul Shine Way is built around these seven steps, these seven stages. And we start with the foundations, which are awareness and self-compassion. Then we go into the understanding, like understand your inner emotional blueprint, um, what are the things in your life that are shaped you and which are impacting you from your past and your present? We then go into healing, like how do we heal those parts? How can we be there for ourselves in the way we need in order to feel safe? And then we go into this kind of integration stage. Like, what does it look like to embody this in daily life, to keep building this reservoir of compassion and safety and regulation? And if you imagine those four stages, almost like if you can imagine an iceberg, and perhaps you're familiar with this image of an iceberg in coaching, it's like all of this is what's underneath the water. You know, like with an iceberg, you see the peak at the top, but there's like a massive amount of it, much bigger, under the water. So those first kind of stages I've just talked through is everything that's under the water. It's like what we can't really see, it's our unconscious system. But as we start shifting that unconscious system underneath the water, the changes start rippling to what we do see above the water. And this is how we actually turn up in our life. This is how life is expressed and felt. And so we go from that embodiment we and integration, we move into expression. Like, how do we speak our truth? That's like our boundaries, and it's expressing ourselves. And from expression, we then move into expansion. And that was a very long way to aren't get to the question you just asked. Expansion is where we reconnect with the truth of who we are. This is where we go. What are my values? Not the values I inherited, not the values I learned to feel safe, you know, to be achiever, to be this, to be that. What is my what lights me up? What matters to me, to my soul, to my unburdened, freest, most liberated self? And this stage of expansion is where we really start expressing in the world as our true self in the big and the little ways, because it's now safe, because everything under the water is starting to reconfigure, and we need to reconfigure that to truly embody our true self. And then beyond that, the final stage is connection, and connection is about understanding our place in the world and our community and our connection to others and the importance of co-regulation. And but it is that sense of in order to truly access like this liberated, joyful, light version of ourselves, we have to work with what lies beneath and what has been preventing that. And that's how transforming your relationship with yourself transforms your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:03

So well said. Thank you for that. I love that you described that process because as I've witnessed myself and other people in some of those, right at that tip of the iceberg part that you described, I have seen some really funny and cool things happen. Like people who were in one career, and they obviously don't have to be life offending in any way, shape, or form. You could still, you know, like, what did the Buddha do before enlightenment? Chop one and water. What did the Buddha do after enlightenment chop one and water? And and often I do see some really cool changes. Like a friend of mine who was a yoga teacher actually changed all their social media platforms and they are a seamstress, like a fleetress now. Like just sort of some of those things on that up end of like you can find out that you have maybe other things to expand into that feel more really aligned in any way. I can't even describe like some of the things I've seen, like you know, doing this art to doing this art, or going from teaching yoga to riding horses or whatever that is. Like I said, it doesn't always have to look that way. And I think, like you said, the way we participate and expand in life unburdened and with joy is the point. And just anecdotally, I just wanted to mention and see if you've seen any of that too, because I see it quite a bit, quite a lot that the friends change, sometimes the careers change, just a lot of things change. And when I'm watching it on myself and others, what it feels like is like a puzzle piece falling into place, like a oh, like like you said, going back to that symphony analogy, like now the clarinet is playing the melody it's supposed to play, like now it's playing you know like it just we even have singing on this puzzle.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:00

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:02

Your turn.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:05

I'll spare you all. Yeah, I think I for me as a coach, um, it's been really interesting. I'm always really clear with clients. I'm like, if you're coming to me because you're like, I want to move countries and set up a business and do this, I'm like, I'm I'm not that coach. Uh because that's sort of starting at the end for me. That's not to say those things won't happen. I'm like, start with what happens within and then see what happens. Because so often we're chasing a feeling. And you know, the the teaching wherever I go, there I am. It's like we have to meet ourselves first and then see what it is that we truly want to feel. And often, in many cases, I've seen people their lives don't need to change dramatically because their experience of themselves within that life changes dramatically. But yeah, sometimes very naturally this unburdened version appears, which is more confident. You know, I have so many clients who have been able to go on and set up businesses and do different things. That was never their intention, but as a result of feeling more themselves than ever before, they felt safe and trusted themselves to explore new avenues. Um, and that's really beautiful because it all comes in place, not of trying to get away from anything, but a desire of moving towards something.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:30

Man, I just love how I love how you script things. You talk so beautifully. Thank you. And couch ideas just in a way that just hit me right here. Um, so in closing, I just wanted to ask one final question. Is there anything left on your heart, a message, um, part of your mission, something that you're like, gosh, if someone handed me the mic, I just would like to say, share this message coming through that's alive in you today. And then at the end of that, would you verbally tell us um how to get a hold of you, Soul Shine Coaching, retreats, all of your materials and things like that. Um, and I will tag them in the show notes.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:14

Yeah, no problem. Thank you. Um I think the biggest, as someone who's walked a very long path of healing from complex trauma and and experiencing a lot of pain and suffering in my life, I think the biggest essence of what I hope people can take away is really hope. Um, these practices for me really uh represent hope that there is truly another way of being with yourself. And when we begin with the compassion, everything softens. And no matter what we've been through, when it's met with compassion, healing is possible and transformation is possible, and so the practices I teach and work with are the practices that have helped me and so many others truly walk a new path built on that inner connection, that inner friendship, becoming our own fiercest ally and advocate, and there's just so much beauty and possibility in that path. So I hope that inspires someone listening today.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:25

Thank you. I know it will. It inspired me. So thank you. You're welcome, and then where yeah, where are your materials now?

SPEAKER_05 1:09:34

Yeah, so at the moment you can find me on www.solshineretreats.com. That's retreats with an s dot com. And you'll be able to find all my offerings there. I have a seven-day free journey of self-compassion, which is really beautiful, full of meditations. You get a 35-page workbook, it's free, you get lifetime access, it's lovely. Uh, that's my gift. I really do want to share these practices. I also have a um an online group coaching program, Freedom from Your Inner Critic, uh, which is possible to join online. I run retreats, I work one-on-one with coaching, and I also have a book coming out in April 2026. And the title is You Have Always Been Enough, uh, a healing guide to self-love and inner liberation. So you'll be able to, if you come on over and sign up, you'll be able to get all the information on all of those things. And on Instagram, I'm at SoulShine underscore Sula, which is S-O-U-L-L-A. It's a lot of S's in my business.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:41

It's beautiful though. It really like off the tongue. I don't know what the phrase is. It's like it's beautiful to say, yeah. And on Instagram, I'm assuming that's where I've been watching to stay up to date with your offerings. So yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, thank you. Oh, that was such a beautiful morning for me. I hope that ended your day. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:05

Yes, it's been a beautiful end to my Friday.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:08

I appreciate you being here, and we'll be in touch. And um, my outro will tell all the people how to get a hold of me and look for the show notes and reach out to me if you can't get a hold of Sula in some way, and I will connect you. But oh, thank you for that offering today. Have a beautiful weekend.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:26

Thank you, and to you and to all your listeners as well. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:33

Thank you for listening.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:35

Connect with me on Instagram at Crystal Zen Yoga. Subscribe on my website at CrystalZenYoga.com to receive tools and practices for your holistic journey and to be the first to know about offerings, workshops, trainings, and retreats. We live in powerful times that require courage, bravery, compassion, authenticity, community, and grounding. You're not alone. Check out my free content classes and meditations on YouTube under Crystal Zinn Yoga and have a beautiful day. Satnaut